i wish i could answer that without getting into a f*cking philosophical debate with myself.
yes, i would like to have *halal*
no, i do not judge you for not observing halal (ok, maybe i think it’s a bit weird, but then, im a tourist, so i can afford to be judgmental)
no, i do not think i need to eat food cooked in wine (to make you feel better about you eating it);
and no, i will not suggest you shouldn’t eat it, since you are old enough to make your own decisions.
i dont get it. if foods cooked in alcohol / alcohol itself are ok, why draw the line at pork? in the words of another friend, “it’s all god’s food” (and say that with a texan accent for effect).
i really dont like rubbing my faith in anyone’s face.
but i would appreciate some space to practice what’s left of it.
Question: is it fair of me to demand zabihah meat considering i will be paying for it through salary earned by working in a bank?
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Hi Hemlock!
I’ve also wondered about that bank issue so many times (don’t work at one, but that’s where all the moolah is parked at?). I also choose Zabihah.One of the main reasons why I started cooking, when on my own.
Its almost never been an issue when I’m paying (& therefore, deciding?). I stuck to zabihah even downunder.
But lets just say certain family members have stopped taking me out to dinner here, because of my stance regarding having zabihah alone – & this didn’t even happen in gora-land.
But I must confess, at times I have consumed food that I wouldn’t have chosen myself (& its a tough decision to act on, when you’re at a table with siblings’ in laws-how does 1 whole family not touch certain food ordered by a knowing member of the other family, the host?).
But bank,or no bank, I still think I’m well within my rights if I want to practice as much as I do.
Its a personal choice, & I stand by what I’ve chosen for myself.
So you get my vote – I think you’re ok, to insist on consuming zabihah.
Its not up to us, to judge.
& hey, surely being the crazy visitor/tourist wouldn’t hurt?
Hi Hemlock!
I’ve also wondered about that bank issue so many times (don’t work at one, but that’s where all the moolah is parked at?). I also choose Zabihah.One of the main reasons why I started cooking, when on my own.
Its almost never been an issue when I’m paying (& therefore, deciding?). I stuck to zabihah even downunder.
But lets just say certain family members have stopped taking me out to dinner here, because of my stance regarding having zabihah alone – & this didn’t even happen in gora-land.
But I must confess, at times I have consumed food that I wouldn’t have chosen myself (& its a tough decision to act on, when you’re at a table with siblings’ in laws-how does 1 whole family not touch certain food ordered by a knowing member of the other family, the host?).
But bank,or no bank, I still think I’m well within my rights if I want to practice as much as I do.
Its a personal choice, & I stand by what I’ve chosen for myself.
So you get my vote – I think you’re ok, to insist on consuming zabihah.
Its not up to us, to judge.
& hey, surely being the crazy visitor/tourist wouldn’t hurt?
& really, I don’t think its just the bankers (& movie producers?actors?etc) who need to worry about halal incomes. I do the 9-5. But my bro’s into the leather business.& the amount of cheating/wrong doing/bad debt/not paying back creditors etc that goes on in the industry?makes me wonder why they bother going for hajj every year.
Infact just recently by bro was telling me of person X who didn’t pay off his creditors (& won’t), coz he’d used up all the money to send his parents on hajj.That’s the explanation X gave his creditor.
& really, I don’t think its just the bankers (& movie producers?actors?etc) who need to worry about halal incomes. I do the 9-5. But my bro’s into the leather business.& the amount of cheating/wrong doing/bad debt/not paying back creditors etc that goes on in the industry?makes me wonder why they bother going for hajj every year.
Infact just recently by bro was telling me of person X who didn’t pay off his creditors (& won’t), coz he’d used up all the money to send his parents on hajj.That’s the explanation X gave his creditor.
call me a skeptic but 100% halal everything, food/work/whatever, would be really hard if not impossible to achieve.
i guess it depends on how you feel about it.
just do the best you can, i reckon that is what’s expected of us.
call me a skeptic but 100% halal everything, food/work/whatever, would be really hard if not impossible to achieve.
i guess it depends on how you feel about it.
just do the best you can, i reckon that is what’s expected of us.
we shall discuss this at your convenience further.
we shall discuss this at your convenience further.
is it fair of me to demand zabihah meat considering i will be paying for it through salary earned by working in a bank?
Yes, obviously. Two wrongs do not make a right. They make two wrongs, which is twice as bad as one wrong.
Just because one may be a drunk doesn’t mean one should also be a thief…. Just because one lies every now and then should not cause one to be a wife-beater too… etc etc ad infinitum..
Oh, and you are not ‘demanding’ zabihah. You are merely choosing0 to eat that which is halal, and choosing to avoid that which is haram. Anyone who cares about you even a teeny tiny bit should have the decency and the basic courtesy to respect your choices, just as you’d respect theirs :)
is it fair of me to demand zabihah meat considering i will be paying for it through salary earned by working in a bank?
Yes, obviously. Two wrongs do not make a right. They make two wrongs, which is twice as bad as one wrong.
Just because one may be a drunk doesn’t mean one should also be a thief…. Just because one lies every now and then should not cause one to be a wife-beater too… etc etc ad infinitum..
Oh, and you are not ‘demanding’ zabihah. You are merely choosing0 to eat that which is halal, and choosing to avoid that which is haram. Anyone who cares about you even a teeny tiny bit should have the decency and the basic courtesy to respect your choices, just as you’d respect theirs :)
saeed: you brought up an interesting dilemma with the sibling’s in-laws. it’s just sad how we would give in to social pressures and to appear polite/respectful of others and go against what is our nature.
like one of the famillies i was staying with *didnt* observe zabiha. and my uncle said to me “but it’s only chicken”. i had a REALLY nasty reply but stopped myself short. replied with “that’s your choice, and this is mine, so let’s just leave it at that.”
more than the instant struggle to attempt to stick to halal foods, i was wondering if i would make similar compromises if i was living in a non-muslim country. i remember though, we lived in England for 2 years. we had vegetarian pizzas at pizza hut and got our meat from halal butcher shops.
people make some hard choices and then rationalize them (much like what i did with banking). how far would i go with mine is the real question :)
and the guy your brother was talking about. he just doesnt want to pay off his creditors. period. if he can afford to send his parents for hajj, he can affoed to pay off his debts. from what i understand, a hajj while you are in debt doesnt count to begin with.
soumyn: yar, i agree with your comment. but doing your best – when done in the true sense – can be very hard and demanding, and then we end up cutting corners. if i was doing my best, i wouldnt be in a bank. full stop.
abbas: i think it’s a matter now, sir, of your convenience.
maranello: Anyone who cares about you even a teeny tiny bit should have the decency and the basic courtesy to respect your choices, just as you’d respect theirs
out of respect for them, when i dont point out that non-zabiha is not halal, and yet i find it wrong in my heart and refrain from doing so; am i being a hypocrite and weak in my faith?
saeed: you brought up an interesting dilemma with the sibling’s in-laws. it’s just sad how we would give in to social pressures and to appear polite/respectful of others and go against what is our nature.
like one of the famillies i was staying with *didnt* observe zabiha. and my uncle said to me “but it’s only chicken”. i had a REALLY nasty reply but stopped myself short. replied with “that’s your choice, and this is mine, so let’s just leave it at that.”
more than the instant struggle to attempt to stick to halal foods, i was wondering if i would make similar compromises if i was living in a non-muslim country. i remember though, we lived in England for 2 years. we had vegetarian pizzas at pizza hut and got our meat from halal butcher shops.
people make some hard choices and then rationalize them (much like what i did with banking). how far would i go with mine is the real question :)
and the guy your brother was talking about. he just doesnt want to pay off his creditors. period. if he can afford to send his parents for hajj, he can affoed to pay off his debts. from what i understand, a hajj while you are in debt doesnt count to begin with.
soumyn: yar, i agree with your comment. but doing your best – when done in the true sense – can be very hard and demanding, and then we end up cutting corners. if i was doing my best, i wouldnt be in a bank. full stop.
abbas: i think it’s a matter now, sir, of your convenience.
maranello: Anyone who cares about you even a teeny tiny bit should have the decency and the basic courtesy to respect your choices, just as you’d respect theirs
out of respect for them, when i dont point out that non-zabiha is not halal, and yet i find it wrong in my heart and refrain from doing so; am i being a hypocrite and weak in my faith?
my understanding is it depends on the degree of your faith… the word is ‘taqwa’.
some people would eat it all.
some would eat it, as long as it isn’t pork.
some would ask if it is zabiha.
some would require documentary evidence it actually is.
some wouldn’t have any of that and insist on bringing their own meat.
others would only eat at home what they deem is prefectly halal.
i suppose there would be people who would object to eating the chicken that wandered (before coming under a halal knife) within sights and sounds of a wet sow.
everyone breaks down somewhere. the question then becomes, how far can you take it? what is your level of faith…? it should be only between you and god. others should have only limited access to such intimate recesses.
your question is genuine and i find myself confronting similar situations occasionally. i suppose Maranello response describes it quite well. you don’t have to start consuming non-halal just because you think your money from the bank job isn’t halal enough… and therefore, any food you buy from it would be rendered non-halal.
i think it is a bit like the gradual nature of the sine wave… and not like the digital square wave, which jumps from one point to another instantly (apologies for the jargon). so while, perfect halal is white in color and perfect haram, black. your choice cocktail is likely to be some shade of gray.
the spin-off here is that, even though it is gray it is not the same gray every single time. sometimes darker, sometimes lighter – depending on how you mix it up.
my understanding is it depends on the degree of your faith… the word is ‘taqwa’.
some people would eat it all.
some would eat it, as long as it isn’t pork.
some would ask if it is zabiha.
some would require documentary evidence it actually is.
some wouldn’t have any of that and insist on bringing their own meat.
others would only eat at home what they deem is prefectly halal.
i suppose there would be people who would object to eating the chicken that wandered (before coming under a halal knife) within sights and sounds of a wet sow.
everyone breaks down somewhere. the question then becomes, how far can you take it? what is your level of faith…? it should be only between you and god. others should have only limited access to such intimate recesses.
your question is genuine and i find myself confronting similar situations occasionally. i suppose Maranello response describes it quite well. you don’t have to start consuming non-halal just because you think your money from the bank job isn’t halal enough… and therefore, any food you buy from it would be rendered non-halal.
i think it is a bit like the gradual nature of the sine wave… and not like the digital square wave, which jumps from one point to another instantly (apologies for the jargon). so while, perfect halal is white in color and perfect haram, black. your choice cocktail is likely to be some shade of gray.
the spin-off here is that, even though it is gray it is not the same gray every single time. sometimes darker, sometimes lighter – depending on how you mix it up.
kb: i liked your jargon. googled it and learnt something new. now i know about the triangle wave and sawtooth wave as well. we live, we learn.
you know, what REALLY bothers me is that when i operate in gray, why then, do i have a problem with others who operate in either lighter or darker shades of gray?
i say people should do as they wish, but something tells me at some level, it bothers me when our shades of gray differ.
i dont know what your understanding punjabi is, but have you checked out saeen zaheer’s version of bulleh shah?
parh parh ilm utey faazil hoya
te keday apnay aap nu parheya ee na
phaj phaj varna aye mandir, maseeti
te kaday munn apnay vich varya ee na
lerna roz, shaitaan de naal
te kadi nafs apnay nal lareya ee na
bulleh shah, asmaani ud deyan pharonda ay
te jera khar betha unoon pharya ee na
bas kare o yaar
bas kare o yaar
ik Alif teray darkaar
Ilmoun
bas kareen o yaar
link
enjoy.
kb: i liked your jargon. googled it and learnt something new. now i know about the triangle wave and sawtooth wave as well. we live, we learn.
you know, what REALLY bothers me is that when i operate in gray, why then, do i have a problem with others who operate in either lighter or darker shades of gray?
i say people should do as they wish, but something tells me at some level, it bothers me when our shades of gray differ.
i dont know what your understanding punjabi is, but have you checked out saeen zaheer’s version of bulleh shah?
parh parh ilm utey faazil hoya
te keday apnay aap nu parheya ee na
phaj phaj varna aye mandir, maseeti
te kaday munn apnay vich varya ee na
lerna roz, shaitaan de naal
te kadi nafs apnay nal lareya ee na
bulleh shah, asmaani ud deyan pharonda ay
te jera khar betha unoon pharya ee na
bas kare o yaar
bas kare o yaar
ik Alif teray darkaar
Ilmoun
bas kareen o yaar
link
enjoy.
i once had this cd by an american musician, moby. the inside of the cover contained small essays written by him. in one of those, he said that the world was far too complicated to be explained by the ideas of any single person or a group.
i think his idea has a lot of weight in it. the fact that we all operate in different levels of gray, is probably only natural. hopefully with time and more experience we can all learn to overlook the unimportant differences.
i’m trying to understand it too. and bulleh shah helps are lot. thanks for the link.
i once had this cd by an american musician, moby. the inside of the cover contained small essays written by him. in one of those, he said that the world was far too complicated to be explained by the ideas of any single person or a group.
i think his idea has a lot of weight in it. the fact that we all operate in different levels of gray, is probably only natural. hopefully with time and more experience we can all learn to overlook the unimportant differences.
i’m trying to understand it too. and bulleh shah helps are lot. thanks for the link.